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Clutchless Shifting

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PostSubject: Fuel filters.   Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:23 pm

Because some people don't pay attention when I post links, here's the meat and potatoes:

[QUOTE=duster360;9613274]Right, ignore Aeromotive or any other professional Mechanical Engineer for that matter. They don't know shit compare to anyone on this forum, especially a IT tech/shade tree mechanic. :stab:

If any of those filters use any of the three small filters shown here. AVOID!!! I've had a couple customers have them clog unexpectedly. There are a few more forum members posted similar problems as well.
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A certain misinformed bafoon with an inferiority complex (aforementioned IT help desk clerk) will say since he never had issue with his teeny, tiny filter everyone else must be wrong.

Again, don't take that risk. Your fuel filter isn't where you want to take the cheap route.

The Trick flow 23000 & 23001 are no good as well as the Russel
I haven't looked at the Summit ones yet[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=03RedSRT4;9613634]Just got off the phone with Summit, and they do not know the surface area of their filters.

Just got off the phone with Aeromotive, and they said all of the inline fuel filters elements have 60 inch surface areas, with exception of the 12303 model. That seems good for the tech, bad for the wallet.

Sent from my LG-P999 using AutoGuide.Com Free App[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=duster360;9614348]I never cared for the stupid "billet" fuel filters. They're needlessly expensive and have poor availability.

Honestly, I'd strongly consider adapting an off the shelf stock EFI filter.

Like this guy sells. The filter is off a Ford, I don't recall which model though
Hi-Pressure EFI Fuel Filter - Speedway Motors, America's Oldest Speed Shop
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Or this for use with the factory 5/16 feed line
WIX 33310 Fuel Filter | eBay

Or this one with 3/8 hose barbs
Wix 33482 Fuel Filter | eBay
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[QUOTE=duster360;9617060]That probably do just fine
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Just a tad bigger than the teeny, tiny Quarter sized disk the unfortunate and misinformed would have you use.
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[QUOTE=03RedSRT4;9618959]Okay well, here's where I am at. This is the only filter I can find that specify's that its E85 safe, 40 micron, after the pump and before the injectors, and has a "60 surface area. So in satisfying these necessities, we come to the conclusion that this is the only filter, that I can find, that's acceptable. Unfortunately it's $123, and I still have to buy the proper fittings, and possibly hose to install it.

Aeromotive 12335 - 40 MICRON, ORB-10 RED FUEL FILTER
SKU: 12335
An inexpensive insurance policy to protect your investment.
Proper filtration is key to fuel system performance. Engineered filter solutions are required to achieve protection with minimum restriction. For 200 – 3,000 plus HP applications, our filter assemblies offer unmatched flow, ease of installation and maintenance, along with the impeccable machining and finish you’ve come to expect from all Aeromotive components.
• Designed to stand up to the destructive properties of alcohol based fuels, including ethanol and methanol.
• High-flow, 40-micron stainless steel, cleanable element.
• ORB-10 ports. Fittings available to adapt these filters to AN-10, -08 and -06 line sizes. (see Fittings & Adapters)
• Compact size: 5.5” long x 2” diameter.
• Features an anodized bright dip red finish for a corrosion resistant, show car quality appearance.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Bad98rt;9618996]even easier[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=duster360;9619052]Its real easy.
A large filter has no downside besides cost.
Small cheap filter can clog and cause issues.--->How much is the current rebuild costing you? How much more is a GOOD fuel filter over a pos disk?

Using a filter with the largest filter surface area not only ensures that it'll have a sufficiently long service life without clogging prematurely, but also that there's a low pressure drop across the filter.
Here's some food for thought: how many of the tragically misinformed have had continuous issues failing pumps?---its always the pump's fault right?
Now ask yourself, how many were using tiny filters that could cause excessive pressure between the pump and filter?

The tiny Disk filter has known issues clogging prematurely. Sad but true. Why take the gamble even if a there are a lucky few who think its "fine" ?

When in doubt listen to the engineers and look to what every OEM does.
Nearly every OEM fuel filter uses a PLEATED filter media about 2-2.5" in diameter and ~3" long. If I had to guess they're around 50-75 square inches. Doesn't that seem suspiciously close to what Aeromotive suggests?

Many fuel filter companies suggest the use of a large filter area or advertise it as an distinct asset. Why is that?
Seems like their trying to talk to the guys who may actually know that the filter area makes a difference. Its only an arrogant fool that would dismiss the persistent trend as pure market hype.
I doubt Aeromotive gives a shit about selling filters. The only reason they sell filters is to prevent their FUEL PUMPS from being ruined and coming back on warranty returns because some dipshit stuck a tiny cheap filter on it.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=03RedSRT4;9619106]The old saying stands true; "Fast, cheap, reliable... pick two."

I think I will have to choose the Aeromotive 12335. Dave is right about my rebuild cost. It's not worth saving a few dollars, even a hunderd, to put my setup together and risk the engine. That was actually my philosophy in the rebuild with respect to a few things like water pump, tensioner, valve seals, head gasket and head studs. I chose to go with the tried and true, even though it was more expensive, in the interest of longevity and performance.

Thank you guys for helping me, not only with research, but with reason. I don't understand why some filter companies dont divulge their filter element surface area, but because of that I do see why Aeromotive does it, and boasts the surface area.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=burks;9619109]Maybe the don't for exact reason Aeromotive does. Would you advertise a filter area that is tiny? I wouldn't, I'd hide that. Would you advertise a large filter area? Hell yeah! Increase in sales.

I've been following this thread closely. If I were in your shoes, I'd buy the best filter I could afford. That's my plan when I run a return line and go E85 with my S3. For now I'll just stick with the 255 and meth. Why risk an engine? Sure it may not happen with a tiny filter......but why chance it?

I prefer a larger filter on anything I need to have filtered. House filter, aquarium, etc. I've never ran into a situation that I had "too much" filtering.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=duster360;9620021]Not running any fuel filter at all sounds like a perfect solution Brilliant!!! Its takes real "out of the box" thinking by someone blind to the reality that he's completely unqualified to suggest something so revolutionary!!!,,,,,,,,,,,,,, :stab:

Or,,,,,,,,,,,its the stupidest thing I've ever read on this forum and that's saying a lot.

I'll let the brain trust manning the phones at the IT dept help desk test out that moronic idea. Any fool suggesting a fuel filter isn't really needed and that the Gas station's pump filter is good enough, should not only be completely ignored but condemned and ostracized.

Anyone that has looked at their pump module pickup sock or the crap floating in the tank after a few thousand miles can see that the Gas station pump filter is INSUFFICIENT. It would take an oblivious fool with a misguided vendetta to think additional fuel filtering is a "moot point"

I'll stick to OEM or larger filter. An I strongly suggest EVERYONE do the same. PROVEN never to clog, the same can't be said for pos teeny, tiny fuel filters.(!?!? I blame the Gas station pump filter,,LOL)

****If any teeny tiny fuel filter was morally offended or had its fragile feelings hurt by my big meany, but accurate, statements in this post, tough.
I could care less[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=csmsach;9620701]Based on my measurements of both the FPR/Filter, Canister filter and the Pump filter the combined surface area is 82 Sq. Inches.

Keep in mind this number is actually much smaller due to the filters shapes not being perfect square and portions of both filters are not actually filter media. Based on that I would estimate that the real total surface area is actually in the 74-76 Square inch range.

Surface Area = 47.85 Sq. Inches

39.875 * 1.2 = 47.85 Sq. Inches

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Canister Filter

Surface area = 17.291 Sq. Inches

2.969 * 2.912 = 8.646 Sq. Inches
8.646 * 2 = 17.291 Sq. Inches
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Fuel Pump Filter
Surface area = 16.863 Sq. Inches

1.574 * 5.357 = 8.432 Sq. Inches
8.432 * 2 = 16.863 Sq. Inches

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[You must be registered and logged in to see this image.][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=03RedSRT4;9620720]Thanks for that post! I am looking for my filter, but I am looking for the one that goes in the top of the canister that the feed line snaps onto. That's what I saw in my head when Duster commented on the filtering area of the stock filter. I think the canister filter and the pump filter are not the filters in question. They must be something like 500 micron right? I think they are just intended to filter debris out of the fuel before it hits the actual fuel filter on top of the canister.

Am I mistaken in thinking that Dusters 40in^2 was in referance to the filter/FPR in the top of the canister?[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=csmsach;9620990]I think it is debatable for sure. Technically the fuel is being filtered 3 times using a stock fuel setup. Although, from what I can tell, the canister and fuel pump filters appear to be the same which would technically make it only 2 times. By removing the FPR/Filter and replacing it with something substantially smaller I don't think I would be very confident about it at all. I personally have over 4k in my motor alone. Spending upwards of 200$ on a really good fuel filter seems acceptable to me when you look at how much that filter could be saving me if something fuel related were to become an issue. I just don't think anyone can justify not having it if something were to happen. There is no way that I would be able to use the filter Gizmodo does and be able to sleep at night.

For the record though, I do use the summit filter that has the small disc in it. But, this is only because I still have a stock fuel setup. So that makes it my 4th or 3rd filter depending on how technical you want to be. I also have it mounted in the engine bay and I clean it every oil change. Which for me is around 2.5k miles. When I actually get around to doing a better fuel setup I will switch to a much better filter as it will be one of two filters in my setup.

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I was going to do the same thing, but I can't find my bad filter/FPR, I didn't wanna cut up a good one, though I cant seem to sell them either.

Great job man! Really, I wanted to see the surface area so bad, that's awesome that its that large for such a small package. I think mine was red IIRC. Still looking for it. This adds more weight to the reasoning of getting a bigger filter.[/QUOTE]
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PostSubject: Re: Fuel filters.   Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:10 pm

Good info 03RedSRT4. I'm Learning a lot from you.. :driving:

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PostSubject: Re: Fuel filters.   Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:50 pm

Thanks man, I am currently working on this setup for my car. Its VERY HARD to find a 40 micron, Ethanol compatible, pre rail, high psi filter that has 60 square inches or more of surface area. Actuylly, only one exists in the whole market as far as I can tell.

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This allows us to keep the factory feed line.
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