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 Intercoolers..... SMH.

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03RedSRT4
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PostSubject: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Sun Aug 12, 2012 1:14 pm

Spurred from a PM this morning............

I feel strongly that the stocker was adequate from the factory for many reasons. Front end stability, crash bar retention, price, maintenance, attention, I could go on... I chose to stick with the stocker, all the while investigating the possibilities of cooler air and how to get it. I studied CryO kits, both N2O and CO2, and found them to be pipedreams. It's a great idea, that was POORLY executed by the industry. Only one company got it right, and I can't remember their name but I have only seen ONE on an SRT, and I think it was like $800.

IMO, intercooler manufacturers have failed us immensely. Making a poor design is one thing, convincing everyone they are necessary to make XXX hp was salt in an open wound.

I wanted cooler charge temps, and found the most effective way I believe. (Without nitrous) Water injection. This is my substitution: [You must be registered and logged in to see this image.]

In my old datalogs, I saw a 300* drop in [Calculated] EGT's with an M5 and the 150psi pump. I now have the 200psi pump, and am sticking with the M5. Should I have gone bigger? Maybe, but I don't think that Coolingmist accuretly depict their hp range windows for each nozzle. There is more to the story than power. If they recommend the M5 for, say 300 to 400 hp, that's inadequate when one guy makes 400 hp on 15psi, and another guy makes 400hp on 30psi. See the flaw?

Anyways, sorry for the long ass PM, and I hope you read it on a monitor, vice a cell phone, lol. Bottom line, water injection will out perform MOST aftermarket intercoolers. I say most because of the ones that incorperate CO2 into (not across) the end tanks and core.

orden I have spelled it out with charts and graphs here as well orden

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ARMAZECRETA
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Sun Aug 12, 2012 4:39 pm

Can this the spray be set up to actuate at any RPM or LBS??

I saw this in some of the Pro drift cars but never got the opportunity to ask what was it for.


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03RedSRT4
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:48 pm

It can be programmed either way, I use a pressure switch and set it at 20psi to begin spraying.

You can also get a window switch for a certain RPM range.
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Tue Aug 28, 2012 2:23 pm

Is it more worth for circuit than drift?. I guess for drift should worked, but I don't think air flow is too much to really cool down that much the intercooler.

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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Tue Aug 28, 2012 3:05 pm

I was looking into this after a friend told me he uses N20 intercooler sprayer (dont know actual name)
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03RedSRT4
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Tue Aug 28, 2012 5:55 pm

Water, or water/methanol injection is a great addition to any charged car. I would DEFinetly use it on a drift car, as they hang on the throttle at high rpm's for long turns, and that generates a lot of heat.

A cryo intercooler, such as one that used nitrous or carbon dioxide is effective, but only a so much. The air is only in the intercooler for a fraction of a second, and the surface area of the intercooler only dissaptes a fraction of the charge temperature in that time frame. It's effective, but I highly doubt its as effective as water injection. Water injection allows the intake charge to cool, and it also removes heat from the intake manifold, throttle body, valves, piston surface, and cylinder walls.

As a highly atomized mist it also slows the burn rate of the flame front, which is why we use higher octane fuel for racing, as it allows higher boost and increased timing without knock or predetonation. If you have a hot spot in a cylinder the water would prevent it's occurance, whereas the intercooler sprayer would not.
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solis_ek9
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Wed Aug 29, 2012 4:45 am

does this help on an N/A car and does it make more power
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03RedSRT4
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:25 pm

From Alcohol Injection Systems Inc:

Designed for use with naturally aspirated engines. Our water methanol injection systems perform as a powerful and effective octane enhancer. Allowing engines to run lower grade fuels such as 87-93 octane pump gas with substantially higher then normal compression ratios without the onset of detonation. Thereby, eliminating the use of expensive gasoline octane boosters as well as expensive and inconvenient racing fuels in nearly all but the most extreme applications.

Benefits of Water Alcohol/Methanol Injection on NA application:

Lower air charge temperatures by 30-40 degree's
Reduces cylinder temperatures by 200+ degrees
Increase your 87-93 pump gas by 10-15+ points
Allows the use of lower grades fuels
Allows you to safely run more timing
Cools and protects the tops of your pistons
Longer more stable combustion expansion and progression
Removes carbon build up from combustion chambers, pistons and valves
Reduces & helps eliminate damaging engine detonation & pre-ignition
No need for expensive racing fuel or additives
Have questions or need help choosing the right water methanol/alcohol injection system for your application. Gives us a call toll free for immediate service at 1-801.447.ALKY(2559).

Devils Own is another badass company that supplies these kits, here is their website link for their NA forum: [You must be registered and logged in to see this link.]

And: We have many customers that use this on non forced induction application just for that very reason. For example LS1 motors with raised compression who don' t want to run race gase all the time and get knock with the new compression ratio.

Our Progressive Controller will work off of any TPS sensor or non GM MAF sensor you can also use a standard MAP sensor the tables on the face plate will not be used. You will use the activation lights to see where to set your setting. Of course if you have the 5v reference scale to the sensor you want to use then it's just a simple conversion over to 3 bar voltage.

Even running -20 washer fluid will give you a octane over 100. The walmart brand is 40% methanol. The almost 150 degree intake temps drop helps out alot as well.

Hope that helps
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solis_ek9
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Wed Aug 29, 2012 7:06 pm

so if i have high comperssion engine i wanna use a big shot of nitrous this would really help out?
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Thu Aug 30, 2012 1:10 am

I dont think they are talking about nitrous.....its water/meth injection....

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03RedSRT4
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Thu Aug 30, 2012 10:52 am

Solis, this would TOTALLY help out in that situation. Running high compression is going to fundamentally require lower ignition timing (retarding the angle of the crankshaft relative to TDC when the spark occurs)

This is going to reduce power, but at the same time is allows you to use nitrous without knocking. Now, don't you want that timing to be advanced to the angle it was before you added the nitrous to the equation? Well, water/methanol injection increases your overall octane to a much higher level, slowing the cumbustion reaction. This would allow you to run greater timing while on nitrous. I would HIGHLY recommend a failsafe though for ant car, and especially one with nitrous.
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PostSubject: Re: Intercoolers..... SMH.   Thu Aug 30, 2012 2:34 pm

oh i see thats kool thanks for the info
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