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OldSkoolTizok
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PostSubject: Sorry to spoil the fun :P   Thu May 03, 2012 11:32 am

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Last edited by OldSkoolTizok on Thu May 03, 2012 3:17 pm; edited 1 time in total
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03RedSRT4
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to spoil the fun :P   Thu May 03, 2012 2:55 pm

What? All i see is mobile desktop.
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OldSkoolTizok
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to spoil the fun :P   Thu May 03, 2012 3:17 pm

Woops my bad, there it is.
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03RedSRT4
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to spoil the fun :P   Thu May 03, 2012 5:04 pm

20% is a pretty crazy claim.

My PCM will advance timing 1* for every 10* colder air the IAT sensor sees.

The intake they put on that Skyline is NOT an CAI.

The ECU on the Skyline may need to be reset, because we have no way of knowing what long term fuel trims and knock retard information is stored in it. The test is a failure without this information.

The volumetric efficiency of the engine has a ton to do with the performance of the motor, and where the air and fuel mix, and how well they mix in the cylinders. The turbulence created by the intake (OEM or Aftermarket) will dictate the availability for increased power.

Removing the headlight is an old trick for NATURALLY ASPIRATED cars! Allowing the high pressure area created at the front of the car to positively charge the air box, or air inlet space, is a stupid and pointless excersize in tuning. If anything, it will put positive pressure AGAINST the compressor wheel on a turbocharged car, reducing power, and making the turbo work AGAINST the air flow.

They did not tell us if they allowed the car to warm up to a high enough temp to send the ECU into CLOSED LOOP.

What about the Torque? And a full WOT pull of all gears, not just one gear and one pull!? What AFR's were these dyno rund done with? A pig rich AFR is pointless for experiments and testing products. And I know this car comes with a pig rich WOT AFR.

They are measuring power at the wheels, on a stock motor! The purpose of a CAI is
to allow an air starved motor to achieve the increased air flow demand the motor needs after changes have been made, either by hardware or software. OEM intakes are manufactured within a certain degree of variance and acceptance so that it provides consistent measurable performance on thousands of cars.

This video was made by idiots. (My personal feelings, not based on science)

Come dyno my SRT with the stock airbox, and a CAI and see the REAL difference. The stock airbox was not designed for a 400+ WHP application. Will these guys tell me I don't need a better intake?

Furthermore (Because this video pisses me off), of anyone's interested in the basics of why the tunning community looks to get aftermarket intakes read further. Know this, a CAI may not improve horse power or torque much if its the very first modification the car gets, but I gaurantee you that after tunning the fuel and timing, the CAI will make a much more noticeable difference. This is a WORLD WIDE known face. Thats why SCT, Diablosport, Harley Davidson, Mopar, and everyone else makes "CAI tunes" for cars equipped. Bolting on a CAI and then expecting an increase in power is dumb, the computer needs to make the proper adjustments to capitolize on the change in air dynamics, and yes turbulance is enough of a change in volumetric effeciency to make a difference.

At TDC, an internal combustion engine has a fixed volume, and temperature divided by pressure remains constant. (The Ideal Gas Law) As temperature increases, pressure also increases by the same ratio. If burn temperature is kept the same, then a larger ammount of gas (air) present inside the cylinder increases pressure. Force (Pressure multiplied by area) on the piston surface creates power. (On the power stroke) BOTH: higher temperature, OR more complete cylinder filling will result an increase in cylinder pressure.

Less turbulance = more complete cylinder filling = more pressure in the cumbustion, on the power stroke.

The volumetric efficiency of the motor is known, cylinder by cylinder, and the factory writes the applicable tables into the factory tune. Altering something on the motor to effect a change in volumetric effeciency changes things, and unless the computer knows the correction values for this it can not make more power, aside from incidental power.

If you want to see why I am right, and these guys in the video are wrong, I'll gladly make you some copies of some great reading material. It has a lot of math in it, so if you are an idiot, don't take my offer. Some of the concepts of tunning require deep understanding of thermal dynamics. I am not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to enlighten local auto enthusiasts and prevent them frpom being led down the wrong path.

I am trying to help, as I have always done.
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OldSkoolTizok
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to spoil the fun :P   Thu May 03, 2012 8:11 pm

I just thought it was a fun vid to show, because realisticly alot of dudes think that putting an intake is a big deal..
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03RedSRT4
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to spoil the fun :P   Thu May 03, 2012 8:14 pm

You are correct. For a novice tuner, it is a way he can make the engine bay less cluttered, a bit more colorfull, and intakes are a dime a dozen. Its a good starting point, I'll agree.
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PostSubject: Re: Sorry to spoil the fun :P   Thu May 03, 2012 11:49 pm

03RedSRT4 wrote:
20% is a pretty crazy claim.

My PCM will advance timing 1* for every 10* colder air the IAT sensor sees.

The intake they put on that Skyline is NOT an CAI.

The ECU on the Skyline may need to be reset, because we have no way of knowing what long term fuel trims and knock retard information is stored in it. The test is a failure without this information.

The volumetric efficiency of the engine has a ton to do with the performance of the motor, and where the air and fuel mix, and how well they mix in the cylinders. The turbulence created by the intake (OEM or Aftermarket) will dictate the availability for increased power.

Removing the headlight is an old trick for NATURALLY ASPIRATED cars! Allowing the high pressure area created at the front of the car to positively charge the air box, or air inlet space, is a stupid and pointless excersize in tuning. If anything, it will put positive pressure AGAINST the compressor wheel on a turbocharged car, reducing power, and making the turbo work AGAINST the air flow.

They did not tell us if they allowed the car to warm up to a high enough temp to send the ECU into CLOSED LOOP.

What about the Torque? And a full WOT pull of all gears, not just one gear and one pull!? What AFR's were these dyno rund done with? A pig rich AFR is pointless for experiments and testing products. And I know this car comes with a pig rich WOT AFR.

They are measuring power at the wheels, on a stock motor! The purpose of a CAI is
to allow an air starved motor to achieve the increased air flow demand the motor needs after changes have been made, either by hardware or software. OEM intakes are manufactured within a certain degree of variance and acceptance so that it provides consistent measurable performance on thousands of cars.

This video was made by idiots. (My personal feelings, not based on science)

Come dyno my SRT with the stock airbox, and a CAI and see the REAL difference. The stock airbox was not designed for a 400+ WHP application. Will these guys tell me I don't need a better intake?

Furthermore (Because this video pisses me off), of anyone's interested in the basics of why the tunning community looks to get aftermarket intakes read further. Know this, a CAI may not improve horse power or torque much if its the very first modification the car gets, but I gaurantee you that after tunning the fuel and timing, the CAI will make a much more noticeable difference. This is a WORLD WIDE known face. Thats why SCT, Diablosport, Harley Davidson, Mopar, and everyone else makes "CAI tunes" for cars equipped. Bolting on a CAI and then expecting an increase in power is dumb, the computer needs to make the proper adjustments to capitolize on the change in air dynamics, and yes turbulance is enough of a change in volumetric effeciency to make a difference.

At TDC, an internal combustion engine has a fixed volume, and temperature divided by pressure remains constant. (The Ideal Gas Law) As temperature increases, pressure also increases by the same ratio. If burn temperature is kept the same, then a larger ammount of gas (air) present inside the cylinder increases pressure. Force (Pressure multiplied by area) on the piston surface creates power. (On the power stroke) BOTH: higher temperature, OR more complete cylinder filling will result an increase in cylinder pressure.

Less turbulance = more complete cylinder filling = more pressure in the cumbustion, on the power stroke.

The volumetric efficiency of the motor is known, cylinder by cylinder, and the factory writes the applicable tables into the factory tune. Altering something on the motor to effect a change in volumetric effeciency changes things, and unless the computer knows the correction values for this it can not make more power, aside from incidental power.

If you want to see why I am right, and these guys in the video are wrong, I'll gladly make you some copies of some great reading material. It has a lot of math in it, so if you are an idiot, don't take my offer. Some of the concepts of tunning require deep understanding of thermal dynamics. I am not trying to be a smart ass, just trying to enlighten local auto enthusiasts and prevent them frpom being led down the wrong path.

I am trying to help, as I have always done.

This is good valuable info. thanks SRT!
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